Episode 81: How to Help Kids Move Past Challenges Toward Growth
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Former Daystar staffer Pace Verner and her husband Brandon join Sissy and David to talk about their experiences with their own parents and their four kids, and how facing challenges leads to growth.
A special thank you to our partners of this week's episode:
Abide - Download Abide Sleep and Pray Meditation app today by texting our promo code RBG to 22433 to get 25% off!
Explorer Bible for Kids - Learn more at explorerbibleforkids.com. Buy your copy today from Lifeway.com and get 50% off using code RBG.
The Chosen Season 3 begins in theaters November 18! For more information, visit TheChosenTickets.com.
Automated Transcript
Sissy Goff
00;00;03;14
Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff.
David Thomas
00;00;07;10
I'm David Thomas.
Melissa Trevathan
00;00;08;17
And I'm Melissa Trevathan.
Sissy Goff
00;00;10;10
And we are so glad you've set aside a few minutes to spend with us today. In each episode of this podcast, we'll share some of what we're learning in the work we do with kids and families on a daily basis. At De SA Counseling in Nashville, Tennessee. Our goal is to help you care for the kids in your life with a little more understanding, a little more practical help, and a whole lot of hope. So pull up a chair and join us on this journey from our little yellow house to yours.
David Thomas
00;00;38;29
Sissy. You know, I sometimes have trouble with sleep.
Sissy Goff
00;00;42;12
I do.
David Thomas
00;00;43;26
Sometimes because I eat too much of that chocolate lava cake, too close to bedtime. But sometimes because I just have too much on my mind.
Sissy Goff
00;00;52;10
So sometimes too much on your stomach. Sometimes too much on your mind?
David Thomas
00;00;56;13
Yes, sometimes both.
Sissy Goff
00;00;57;27
I talk with kids in my office all the time who have too much on their mind and have trouble falling asleep.
David Thomas
00;01;03;25
Well recently I tried The Gift of Sleep on my Abide app. It was so good I didn't even make it to the end of it.
Sissy Goff
00;01;11;00
Yes, their voices are so soothing and I love the way their speaking scripture over us as we work to quiet our minds, sleep better and find peace. Download the Abide app today and boost your mental, physical and spiritual health.
David Thomas
00;01;28;00
Right now we have a special offer for our listeners when you subscribe. 25% off your first year when you sign up for the premium subscription, but only if you text the promo code. RBG to 22433.
Sissy Goff
00;01;47;19
Say it one more time.
David Thomas
00;01;48;22
Text Promo Code RBG to the number 22433.
Sissy Goff
00;01;53;27
Don't wait. Download Abide Sleep and Pray Meditation today. And text our promo code. RBG to...David.
David Thomas
00;02;03;11
22433
Sissy Goff
00;02;05;21
...today to get 25% off.
Sissy Goff
00;02;12;18
We are so excited for you to get to hear from two of our favorite people in the whole world.
David Thomas
00;02;17;25
We are jumping up and down in the parking lot when they were coming into the building.
Sissy Goff
00;02;20;29
We were. So much wisdom. So much truth from these parents in the trenches. Our dear friends Pace and Brandon Brunner. We have been waiting for this episode.
David Thomas
00;02;31;01
For how long?
Sissy Goff
00;02;32;07
When did we ask y’all? In the summer?
Pace Verner
00;02;34;00
Yes
Sissy Goff
00;02;34;19
We've been counting down the days until the summer. Melissa is not here and she is going to be a wreck. That she missed this. Melissa, we're sorry. You're very important to all four of us. And we're really sorry you're not here.
Pace Verner
00;02;44;05
Hey Melissa.
Sissy Goff
00;02;46;10
We are sitting here with two of our dearest friends. Favorite people in the whole world. Which is such a treat. And I was trying to think Pace, we've been friends for.
Brandon Verner
00;02;56;27
A long time.
Pace Verner
00;02;57;22
Yeah, since 2001.
Sissy Goff
00;03;01;07
I don't even know how many years now.
Pace Verner
00;03;02;08
We were friends before that actually.
Sissy Goff
00;03;04;22
We got together every Monday night for 12 years probably?
Pace Verner
00;03;07;21
No, longer than that.
Sissy Goff
00;03;09;00
Till the pandemic and then it threw us off. But we still get together regularly. And I met Brandon with you. The first time you met Brandon I was there.
David Thomas
00;03;17;14
I don’t know this story.
Pace Verner
00;03;19;21
Gene's birthday party.?
Sissy Goff
00;03;21;05
Yes.
Brandon Verner
00;03;21;29
Wow. I don’t even think I remember that.
Sissy Goff
00;03;24;22
I remember.
Pace Verner
00;03;25;25
Please say that you were right, guy. I was. He was playing it cool. He was like, Where was your focus? What do you mean?
Brandon Verner
00;03;33;27
That's why I didn't notice. Sissy. I was focused elsewhere.
Sissy Goff
00;03;38;09
Yeah. Thanks.
Pace Verner
00;03;41;18
We should carry on.
Sissy Goff
00;03;44;22
Can I tell a story on you?
Pace Verner
00;03;45;22
Yeah.
Sissy Goff
00;03;46;23
So I think it was two years ago that we were talking? And I said, I've got to run in. David, I are recording a podcast. Melissa's coming too. And you were like, a podcast?! What? You have a podcast?!
Sissy Goff
00;04;02;06
Three seasons in? We were three seasons in, I think, which made me so happy. I mean, I'm grateful for you for millions of reasons, but I think it made me even more grateful. You know, we all need friends who it's not about what any of us do or what we're presenting to the world, it's just who we are. And you are both very much that kind of friend of both of us, so.
Pace Verner
00;04;21;13
Well, I should have known you had a podcast.
Brandon Verner
00;04;24;09
Well I'm just really proud of y’all. Y’all have done a really good job.
Sissy Goff
00;04;27;26
Well, you just found out today we had a podcast. Just kidding!
David Thomas
00;04;31;26
Don't worry, I said to Connie awhile back, I'm like, Did you see what we posted? She was like, I don't know if I follow you. I love what Sissy posts though. I follow Sissy. Yeah.
Pace Verner
00;04;40;14
Connie. I understand. Connie,
David Thomas
00;04;42;13
You get it.
Sissy Goff
00;04;43;28
That's good. Well, it's very fun to get to have you all here.
Pace Verner
00;04;47;13
Thank you all for asking us. No, I'm honored. I mean, let's be honest. The reason I didn't know you had a podcast is because I had you in my back pocket. Yes. This has been one of my dearest friends since I got out of college. And Melissa and David, y'all have just been like, huge resources. And mostly you've just been my friend. Yeah.
Sissy Goff
00;05;06;19
Well, we trust your voices and your heart so much and felt like y'all would have so much wisdom to bring in the trenches.
Pace Verner
00;05;13;26
Thank you. Not sure about that, but we'll see.
Sissy Goff
00;05;16;04
We're sure. So will you tell me a little bit about y'all, about your family and even what you both do currently and what you've done and all the different things you've done to bring. And so we all just kind of jump around and give a little back story.
Brandon Verner
00;05;28;25
Yeah, well, we have four kids.
Sissy Goff
00;05;31;17
Amazing kids that we love dearly.
Brandon Verner
00;05;34;04
16, 13, 11 and seven. Did I get that right?
Pace Verner
00;05;38;27
You did.
Brandon Verner
00;05;40;09
And so we've been connected here for a long time. I mean, gosh, Pace, you were working here with Afton there in your office watching shows while you work full time.
Sissy Goff
00;05;52;17
I forgot what.
Pace Verner
00;05;53;06
Part that you went to with that those.
David Thomas
00;05;54;24
Kids have grown up.
Pace Verner
00;05;55;21
In.
David Thomas
00;05;57;19
Nothing.
Pace Verner
00;05;57;29
Our first three were born while I was working here and I had a pack and play in my office and they would take naps.
David Thomas
00;06;04;23
So they go down in between appointments just to hold one dopamine hit in the middle, those sweet burner babies.
Pace Verner
00;06;11;00
And who was it? It was Lolly that would steal the pacifiers.
Sissy Goff
00;06;14;27
And now was Lucy was well maybe later. Is this.
Pace Verner
00;06;18;24
Yeah. Yeah. So my kids, we've grown up around this place.
Brandon Verner
00;06;21;24
Yeah, yeah. I was thankful to have this community as well because I would be gone. And northern Iraq on a trip through. And for you to have this kind of connection here was a gift was a blessing. But yeah, that's my former life kind of working in missions over seas work and got to travel back and forth and kind of bipartisan support projects.
Sissy Goff
00;06;43;22
Which my mom wasn't sure about. You marry and because.
Brandon Verner
00;06;46;15
Of that she was not telling.
Pace Verner
00;06;48;17
Her.
David Thomas
00;06;50;05
I'm nervous.
Pace Verner
00;06;51;13
So normally I would just shake her head. Yeah, yeah, every time.
Sissy Goff
00;06;54;22
But it was amazing work.
Pace Verner
00;06;56;03
It was. Yes. You don't do that anymore.
Sissy Goff
00;06;59;20
No.
Pace Verner
00;07;00;11
I quit working at Daystar ten years ago and I've been home with my kids full time. And then I'm also now actually in a three year training program to become a spiritual director with Dove House Ministries and have loved my work and spiritual direction. So I'm finishing that up in May of this next year and do that one day a week.
Pace Verner
00;07;22;21
But then I'm home with the kids.
Sissy Goff
00;07;24;15
We talk about what spiritual direction is. I sure we people who don't know what that means.
Pace Verner
00;07;28;20
Sure. The most simple and concise thing I could say is that I get to journey with people on their walk with Jesus and just walking alongside people and their faith journey. So many people just have hurt and well, we all have hurt and pain, but it's been with them in that in their relationship to Jesus.
Sissy Goff
00;07;49;18
And we both have done that along the way and.
David Thomas
00;07;52;16
Or have.
Pace Verner
00;07;53;06
Have remained so much. Yes.
Sissy Goff
00;07;55;06
And when I decided to do it, I felt like some of what was going on with me emotionally was how disconnected I felt from God. And so just wanting somebody to help me figure out how did I get here and how do I reconnect and how do I even know more of how much he loves me? Which is what felt like so much of what we did during that time is me just getting to soak in how much he loves me and she kept saying, Be gentle with yourself, so speak.
Pace Verner
00;08;19;02
With your son. Which I love.
Brandon Verner
00;08;21;03
Yeah, that's. It's a gift. It's a real simple place to connect with God and have others. Just make sure the voices you're here and are from God and help kind of discern that and kind of keep you focused.
Pace Verner
00;08;37;18
Yeah.
Sissy Goff
00;08;38;04
Involves a lot of silence, a lot of reflection. It sounds hokey, but it's not hokey.
Pace Verner
00;08;42;07
Oh, it's.
Brandon Verner
00;08;42;27
Not. It's a lot of just contemplative.
Pace Verner
00;08;45;04
Yes.
Brandon Verner
00;08;45;22
Being with God.
Pace Verner
00;08;46;26
Yes. Yeah, powerful.
David Thomas
00;08;48;19
I just think how much I would trust you in that space.
Sissy Goff
00;08;53;21
To.
David Thomas
00;08;54;07
What a gift that you're stepping so deeply into this work. Yeah. Thrilled for so many folks who are going to get to journey with you.
Pace Verner
00;09;01;14
Yes, that is very kind. I love it. It's an honor.
Sissy Goff
00;09;05;10
Hearing. Your process has made me want to be connected to Jesus and.
Pace Verner
00;09;10;16
Seeing you get through it. Thank you. Yeah, that makes me happy.
David Thomas
00;09;15;02
Can we ask you some questions about those awesome kids you were describing?
Pace Verner
00;09;19;24
Yeah. Well, I'm just going to go ahead and say yesterday when my children asked me, they said, what is this thing you're going to do in the morning? I said, Oh, well, you know, Cissy and David and Melissa wrote this book about Worry Free and emotionally resilient kids. And still from the back of the car says, we're not worry free.
Pace Verner
00;09;42;17
It's like that. So I was like, You're right, Stella. I'm not sure I'm qualified, so we'll start there. I love that. And really we're just working towards that.
Brandon Verner
00;09;54;22
So yeah, it's just a case study in the process, right? Yes. Not the perfect exam.
Pace Verner
00;10;00;27
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
David Thomas
00;10;02;22
I love that introduction. Beginning our questions. Okay. In thinking on that being our focus for the season, we'd love to ask you what is a favorite memory or story from growing up that shaped you into who you are?
Sissy Goff
00;10;18;22
I'm so excited to hear.
Brandon Verner
00;10;21;14
You know, I think for me, my childhood, the memories that I have all kind of relate to these risky stories that I found myself in with my dad. And they were the ones we would tell sitting around the table, but they were like these kind of badges of honor. But all of them, you know, we're like, we're almost died.
Brandon Verner
00;10;47;11
And then it was us bailing, though, and hey, down out of the loft in the barn, into the truck, you know, for our horses and uncovering some yellow jackets and they're swarming. So you have to jump off the loft into the back of the truck. And, you know, we're backpacking in Glacier National Park, and I'm riding on top of my dad's backpack and we're hiking on a glacier and slip and fall.
Brandon Verner
00;11;12;13
And, you know, my uncle grabs me before I fall into these.
Pace Verner
00;11;14;28
Rocks and.
Brandon Verner
00;11;16;17
Just kind of crazy stories like that. One time we were cutting down a tree, and the tree almost fell on me.
Pace Verner
00;11;23;19
You sound like you lived on little house on the way. It sounded like.
Brandon Verner
00;11;27;14
It was kind of free range parenting before that was named. Hall The thing, I guess I was just thankful for that freedom that I got to experience. It was risk. It was kind of crazy. Parents would probably be in some trouble for some of that stuff today, but for me, they were kind of these badges of honor for getting to experience some of that risk, that freedom, and those are some of the stories.
Brandon Verner
00;11;54;04
But in general, my parents just gave me a lot of trust and a lot of freedom. And that is what kind of stuck with me. Anything as a kid.
Sissy Goff
00;12;03;00
Which it's so fun to talk to you all knowing you so well, because hearing you say that, Asher immediately think that's got to be part of why you are as confident as you are and adventurous as you are, because you had the freedom to explore literally the.
Pace Verner
00;12;16;14
World.
Sissy Goff
00;12;17;11
In the ways that you did.
David Thomas
00;12;19;01
That's a great observation.
Brandon Verner
00;12;20;26
So cool you don't think about that growing up as a kid, right now, processing it, looking back 100%. Yeah. I mean, I'm so thankful for those risks that I was allowed to take for the freedom that my parents gave me and the trust they gave me, rather than me having to earn it and prove it. And they would dish out a little bit of freedom here and there.
Brandon Verner
00;12;45;10
Yeah, it was more We trust you 100%. And as I made mistakes or consequences, but I was thankful for that freedom. They gave me confidence.
Pace Verner
00;12;55;28
You know, it's funny, when I had to think about this question, my mind immediately goes to like two different scenes. They both have to do with my mom. I remember as a kid, this probably only happened like three times, but it just had such an impression. We would meet in our what we called our playroom and was where our TV was and all of us would be in there and we'd be watching TV.
Pace Verner
00;13;18;20
And I had just taken my shower, I'm in my pajamas and my mom was curling my hair and sponge rollers and I was sitting in her lap while she's curling my hair. And we're watching a TV show and just that, like warmth of family and all being together and being tended to. But while we're, like, bonding and and then also this other thing just left such an impression as I remember when I would crawl up in my mom's lap and lay my head against her chest and hearing her heartbeat when she'd be talking on the phone.
Pace Verner
00;13;51;13
And something about that warmth of just her care for me, I was I was like, what are the things that made me who I am today? Those are like two of the things that come to me right away is just that nurturing and wanting, that nurture and wanting to give that as well to my kids and my family and such.
Pace Verner
00;14;09;04
Simple, yes, they were not jumping out of barns. They had such impressions on me.
Sissy Goff
00;14;15;18
Connection, the connection. I talked to somebody yesterday who said, which I thought was brilliant, that she was watching YouTube videos to learn to braid hair because she has the best conversations with her daughter, who's adolescent, because the daughter's looking straight ahead. And it's this connectedness, but it's less awkward. I thought that was so smart. So I love I guess we're not really sponge rollers.
Pace Verner
00;14;38;24
Thank goodness I had a few of those myself.
Brandon Verner
00;14;42;05
It's just interesting. Those most connecting, memorable things are just being along in the journey. They're not these intentional kind of teaching moments that I felt for my dad or you felt from your mom. It was just a connection and kind of going along with what they were doing when they were involved in the adventure.
Pace Verner
00;15;02;16
And where you felt loved.
Sissy Goff
00;15;04;00
Yeah, I think that's so interesting. Even what we talk so much about boys and girls with connection that yours was built around risk and adventure and yours was this intimate connection with, you know, as a male and as a female. And it feels so much like.
Pace Verner
00;15;17;26
What you're saying for sure. Yes.
Sissy Goff
00;15;19;16
Yes, absolutely.
David Thomas
00;15;24;21
Sissy, how many Bibles do you have in your Bible collection?
Sissy Goff
00;15;28;15
Well, I have quite a few because I can't pass up a beautiful Bible, but I have a few favorites I use regularly.
David Thomas
00;15;34;22
There is something about having a go to Bible for taking notes and highlighting key verses. I love returning to a verse in my favorite Bible months or years later and reading the margin notes.
Sissy Goff
00;15;46;00
Yes, I know what you mean. One of the things I love about the Explorer Bible for kids is that it has special verses already highlighted along with notes and bonus content right within the pages.
David Thomas
00;15;57;03
What a great way for kids to begin engaging in Bible study.
Sissy Goff
00;16;01;03
It sure is. You know what else I love about this Bible? It comes in several different formats hardcover, leather options with cute designs, and our promo code works on all of them.
David Thomas
00;16;11;22
Are you kidding? I didn't even realize that. I have been so focused on the colorful hardcover copy we have in our offices, but they have leather too, and our listeners can get it 50% off. What an amazing deal by your copy of the Explorer Bible for kids today at life Wacom and get 50% off using code RB G.
Sissy Goff
00;16;40;08
So your kids range from elementary to high school. So what are some things that you think are helping in the process of your kids become emotionally strong and worry free some things that you're doing? I feel like I'm just going to answer for you a little bit. Okay. One of the things that I love that you all do is that I feel like you have a mix of being very aware, but also the sense of letting your kids take risk and your kids have a really great sense of independence when you push them, some of them away and have to get them to do it.
Sissy Goff
00;17;13;22
But I mean, it's such a gift and so needed for kids today.
Brandon Verner
00;17;17;12
I think sometimes I don't step back and evaluate all the parenting that we're doing, but I am thankful that they have learned to take risks, that we've given them that freedom as well. Kind of what I talked about, just a little bit of that freedom to mess up, to go explore on their own. That was important to me and I think I wanted that for our kids.
Brandon Verner
00;17;41;18
But it does have to kind of come natural. It can't be this manufactured. I want it to happen like this, but I think we've been a good balance of that kind of wildness and just a tender kind of nurturing.
Pace Verner
00;17;55;21
Mm hmm. I do have a specific story.
Sissy Goff
00;17;58;11
Good place.
Pace Verner
00;17;59;08
We went to Universal two years ago, and for all of you that know the Hagrid's ride the motorcycle ride. Oh, my gosh, I love that thing. Two of them had ridden it with this and loved it, and two of them had it. And we were like really having to push, push, push, push to the point we weren't going to like put them on their crying, but we were like, It's going to be one of those regrets.
Pace Verner
00;18;20;05
Yeah. I mean, y'all, they barely got on that thing, but as soon as it was over, it was like, Yeah, I mean, they went bananas. Do you remember? I do. Oh, my gosh. It was just like they could go climb Mount Everest, you know, because the thrill and the excitement and, like, conquering the fear was just. I feel like we're always, as parents, trying to do that thing where it's like, go, go, go.
Pace Verner
00;18;44;04
But to the point that it feels comfortable to them and after. And right now, it's about to do a little exchange program in France next summer with sister cities and Nashville. And it's uncomfortable. He knows no one, but he wants to do it. It's just like taking those risk that feel real out of your comfort zone. But who knows what's going to come of it?
Pace Verner
00;19;04;10
And it could be terrible. Your host family could be horrible. But that's okay. Yeah.
Sissy Goff
00;19;08;15
And that's so great. You prepare them that way. I mean, this conversation, we don't know, right?
Pace Verner
00;19;12;21
There's no guarantees here. But you'll come back as a fuller person, you know, with what you're coming back with.
Sissy Goff
00;19;19;09
I read something in the anxiety research on the books. I mean, obviously, kids need to do hard things, which is exactly what you're saying. The thing that I read, sad, the harder the thing is, the more confidence a child derives from it.
Pace Verner
00;19;30;01
Hmm.
Sissy Goff
00;19;30;23
Wow. And on this scary ride or going to live abroad. Yeah. For a period of time, the amount of confidence I think about kids that we send to wilderness programs, and I feel like they come home feeling like, yes, I'm so fierce.
Brandon Verner
00;19;42;18
Yeah, it can be so counter intuitive to allow our kids to do things that are dangerous, risky, potentially setting them up to get hurt. It's hard to let those things just play out rather than jump in and kind of control it and try to fix it. I think that's where I've learned when they are afraid, when they are anxious, when they are not able to kind of get through something.
Brandon Verner
00;20;09;14
I want to fix it. I want to create a plan and find a way, talk through and make it better.
Sissy Goff
00;20;15;12
Yeah, right. Of course.
Brandon Verner
00;20;16;28
Of course. That's what we want to do. But I've learned to just ask good questions and listen and let them be okay with not being okay. And then there's other times where they get to play out the building confidence in other ways, rather than trying to fix it with my plan.
Pace Verner
00;20;34;12
Yes.
Sissy Goff
00;20;35;10
I feel like you're doing the coolest thing right now with Afton. I mean, I think what you do is you give your kids opportunities to prove that they're capable, such as right now he is.
Pace Verner
00;20;44;24
He has his own little business that he has started where he and Brandon go garage sailing every Saturday morning at 7 a.m. and they go buy things. And then he sells it on eBay and he has done amazing. He's had some sales good. But he's had some definitely some huge successes. But he's had to figure the whole process out, how to package it, how to go to the post office.
Pace Verner
00;21;08;17
And it's been an amazing learning curve for him.
Sissy Goff
00;21;11;12
To the point that he's selling a car right.
Pace Verner
00;21;13;15
Now. Just sold it this week. Yes. Unbelievable. No one.
David Thomas
00;21;18;09
Is.
Pace Verner
00;21;18;16
So I know, you know.
Brandon Verner
00;21;20;01
Such good practical experiences. Yes. But he has to do it. Yeah. To truly build the self esteem. It's not him doing something well for me. It's not performing well. It's like him having an idea, having the freedom to follow through with it and then experiencing success or failure. Either way, it's an experience that was his. That's where you build self esteem.
Pace Verner
00;21;44;18
Yes, it's secret. Awesome.
David Thomas
00;21;47;21
So not surprised to hear that story. I want to ask you both this. What is something looking back at your early years of parenting that you worried about that you wish you hadn't?
Pace Verner
00;21;59;26
Immediately I was like, oh, I would try to please other parents and hurt my children in the process. So much regret there. I just think of times where I just especially with like these poor first children, you want to get it right so bad. And when you have your first, you're just working your tail off to do that.
Pace Verner
00;22;20;23
And so you're like wanting the other parents approval and I just oh, things that I regret where I disciplined in ways that I'm like, he's just doing whatever. So I do regret caring more about what other parents thought than how I cared for my child.
David Thomas
00;22;39;16
Thanks for your honesty.
Brandon Verner
00;22;41;05
Yeah, I think for me it was more just having this list of things I thought I needed to teach after. And I mean, he was our test case. He was our firstborn. So having that expectation of what I needed to teach him, what I needed to communicate to him, and I think for me, that got in the way at times of just being present in the moment, maybe having an agenda too much, feeling like I had a plan.
Brandon Verner
00;23;09;22
I had what I wanted to accomplish.
Sissy Goff
00;23;13;00
Y'all. Thank you.
David Thomas
00;23;17;21
The countdown is on this week, November 18th. The new season of The Chosen will start in theaters. Then episodes will begin releasing for free in the chosen app before Christmas.
Sissy Goff
00;23;30;09
This series has made such an impact on the world, David. Millions of people have watched this compelling look at the life of Christ.
David Thomas
00;23;38;09
It's unbelievable how many lives have been changed through the Chosen. Well, maybe not completely unbelievable. Jesus has a way of doing that, doesn't he?
Sissy Goff
00;23;47;01
He sure does. I can't wait to see how people respond to this tension filled chapter of the story of Jesus life.
David Thomas
00;23;54;17
But it's all centered around Matthew 1128. Come to me. All you who are weary and heavy, burdened, and I will give you rest. That's definitely a message that's going to connect with people.
Sissy Goff
00;24;07;08
Don't we know it? The chosen season three begins this week in theaters November 18th. Visit the Chosen tickets dot com for more information. That's the chosen tickets dot com.
Sissy Goff
00;24;24;20
Okay. So what is one statement you wish someone had said to you as you started the parenting journey?
Pace Verner
00;24;30;16
I wish someone had said you're going to love them so much. It hurts really bad. Oh, I cry. I just adore those children so much. You're sad to see them go and you're ecstatic to come back. And you hurt so much when they hurt and you want to go beat people up. That hurt them. And oh, it's just hard.
Pace Verner
00;24;50;05
But it's like the most amazing gift. But it hurts. It's such a deep thing you're carving out in your soul when you choose to connect human out in the world. Mm hmm.
Brandon Verner
00;25;01;10
It's good. I think a mantra that I will always carry that was from a mentor of mine passed away some years back. David Durham is just be present in the moment and you know, that's meant different things for me over the years. The thing that I can offer is just that love of a father. And so being present with that and that helps silence those you know need to ex with my kids and kind of remember just to be present with them and that they need love more than anything.
David Thomas
00;25;37;18
When you look around you, both of you, what do you see other parents struggling with the most?
Brandon Verner
00;25;43;24
I think the need to control, the need to be in control and the need to carry out an agenda that they have in their head. That voice playing out that they should be doing this, their kids should be acting like this. You know, and that's tough. That's tough to carry that around, letting go of that need to control.
Brandon Verner
00;26;05;25
That's a tough one.
Pace Verner
00;26;07;00
To piggyback on that, I think parents just trying to get it right. So everybody's like trying so hard to do the right thing as a parent. And when you do that, then you're judging all the other parents who aren't doing it right. I'm guilty of this something. You're going to be an imperfect parent, be okay with not doing it right.
Brandon Verner
00;26;27;17
And both of those are about me. Yeah. I need to gear. I need.
Pace Verner
00;26;31;09
Absolutely. Yeah. And it's what I said I regret. I was trying to do it right for another parent and not for my child.
Sissy Goff
00;26;39;22
As we talk about feelings around here all the time, we always feel like we want to arm ourselves with truth. And so what would you each say? You said a mantra already, but what would you all each say is one truth that kind of helps you get through?
Pace Verner
00;26;50;28
For me, it's like I'm only responsible for me and like my relationship with Jesus. God has my children. God has Brandon Yes, I am their parent, but also at the end of the day, I can't control them. Like there's only so much I can do. And so what am I doing? Who am I being as a human? Because my children are watching that.
Pace Verner
00;27;14;05
What am I investing the majority of my time? And I keep going back to that. I can't control these little humans. They're not little anymore. And spiritually God's in charge of them. And so I don't have to worry with that, even though I can do that. Yeah.
Brandon Verner
00;27;30;26
I think I truth that I go to as well is that they're on a journey and I trust that is going to be a journey of redemption and one that God plays a big part in along the road. And I will be one of pain and one of loss and one of success. But it's going to be a mixed journey, and I trust them with God on that journey.
Brandon Verner
00;27;56;17
And so I have to remind myself that it's not one I need to be perfect so that it feels good for me, but that I trust them with God and the journey He has them on and the failures, the pain are part of that and will shape them to be who they are and I know I've had those that have shaped me and I mean, we all have.
Brandon Verner
00;28;21;08
But after remind myself of that, that's a truth. I think that's important to me.
Pace Verner
00;28;25;28
I think also to let there be other voices in their lives like Daystar. I mean, we are so lucky here and to have you guys, but to let them have other people speaking into their lives other than just us, whether that's family or grandparents or young life leaders or whatever, that we're not the only source because we sure need each other.
Pace Verner
00;28;51;24
I'm so thankful Melissa just took my son out and have dinner with him and birthday shopping, which is such a cool thing.
Sissy Goff
00;28;59;08
And I think people would never expect that. You're 16 year old son would want to be with Melissa. Who's sorry, Melissa, we're telling your age is 73.
Pace Verner
00;29;06;26
Oh, my gosh. They are all like, when do we get to be with Melissa?
Sissy Goff
00;29;11;12
So it's not that it has to be a 25 year old kid who, you know, I mean, it's just somebody who loves and pours into your kids lives. Obviously, Melissa is extra gifted in the realm of kids, but.
Pace Verner
00;29;22;08
Yes, yes, yeah.
Brandon Verner
00;29;24;03
That's good.
David Thomas
00;29;25;09
Just listening to the two of you and thinking folks listening are now completely aware. While we were so excited about this interview.
Sissy Goff
00;29;34;18
I'm thinking that.
Pace Verner
00;29;35;10
Too.
David Thomas
00;29;35;23
I know. And why we trust your voice is so much you too. And what a gift it is that you would carve out this time to be with us.
Pace Verner
00;29;43;12
Thank you.
David Thomas
00;29;44;10
So grateful for your voices. So be.
Brandon Verner
00;29;47;04
It. Yeah. Thank you.
Pace Verner
00;29;48;13
Daystar. This place has meant so much to our family. You got a lot of history. We got a lot of history. Yeah.
Sissy Goff
00;29;56;01
And Affleck, I can't not say too, because it's so significant of our journey with you that we had ping pong losses of our moms within weeks.
Pace Verner
00;30;07;22
Yeah, Mama, on December 12th, your mom was.
David Thomas
00;30;10;29
On November the 30th. We were on this parallel journey.
Pace Verner
00;30;13;24
Yes. We were texted each other like this is what's happening. Yeah. While they were hospice. Oh, yeah.
David Thomas
00;30;19;27
And I just felt so much less alone.
Pace Verner
00;30;22;14
Thank you, Sam.
David Thomas
00;30;23;11
And I love and trust so much. Is walking out this very journey saying you recommended a book to me in that time? I remember that was transformative as I was traveling that road and just so grateful. In fact, I was thinking as you were telling that story about your mom, for all four of us, like all four of us came from these strong, beautiful women.
Pace Verner
00;30;44;14
Yes.
David Thomas
00;30;45;21
Golly. Just reflecting on that and the gift of knowing all three of your moms like that is such a gift to me that I know all your moms. I think it's a huge part as we talk about things that shaped us, that shaped all four of us, as we sit here having this conversation that.
Pace Verner
00;31;00;29
Yeah, yeah. So.
David Thomas
00;31;02;04
So generous to us to give us that so true.
Pace Verner
00;31;05;14
Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you said that.
Sissy Goff
00;31;08;14
Yeah, well, I couldn't have gotten through losing my mom without knowing that you'd walked it.
David Thomas
00;31;12;16
Yeah, it feels like such a reflection of everything. The two of you said about, you know, when you told the story about Universal and you talked about how much confidence you get in the harder things that the best stuff, all the best stuff, always comes from the hardest stuff. And more of us know it. Yeah, we're deeper because of those losses.
Pace Verner
00;31;31;02
And.
David Thomas
00;31;31;06
That was agonizing. And your kids are more confident because they tried something super difficult and hard. Like all the best stuff comes from the hardest stuff. And yet brain, as you were saying, the temptation is just to get in the way of that. As parents, I want my kids to experience it and that's where the best stuff is.
David Thomas
00;31;47;02
As we know.
Pace Verner
00;31;47;27
It's so true just thinking about teaching them to advocate for themselves. And if we step in and do all they're advocating, they're never going to get anywhere. But if they're learning that skill.
David Thomas
00;31;58;22
Well and that even as we sit here and reflect on losing our parents, that all along the way we're preparing our kids for really hard things that every one of us are going to face as adults.
Pace Verner
00;32;08;11
Like it just.
David Thomas
00;32;09;19
Losses inevitable. So if we're not preparing them in the small stuff on the front side, how will they ever be prepared on the big stuff on the backside? So I love what you all shared.
Pace Verner
00;32;19;13
Oh, well, when you asked about Afternoon Business Sassy, I was thinking ultimately, I feel like we're preparing him to go be without us. He's having to figure out how to go make money, how to go live on his own. Because we won't be there. Yeah. Thinking about losses. Yeah, but that's hopefully what we're ushering each of them to.
Pace Verner
00;32;39;08
Yes. Be independent creatures.
Sissy Goff
00;32;41;15
Yes.
David Thomas
00;32;42;06
We like to end with something fun. We had a two part question. Okay, so awkward walk.
Brandon Verner
00;32;50;02
I'm glad I got to. Yeah.
David Thomas
00;32;51;28
Makes four of us now.
Pace Verner
00;32;54;03
So you explained that your time.
Sissy Goff
00;32;56;13
And pace has stopped having cheese and it's just undone me.
Pace Verner
00;32;59;22
In the last couple months, I was still trying to. Okay. Okay.
David Thomas
00;33;05;05
Walk with you. Yeah. What's your favorite kind of taco?
Brandon Verner
00;33;08;01
Oh, that's the easy one for me right now. It's number seven at Lady Bird. Taco. Oh was my favorite. I've had it twice this week.
Sissy Goff
00;33;16;00
What is number seven?
Brandon Verner
00;33;17;06
It has the brisket and like the crispy potatoes and it's just amazing.
David Thomas
00;33;22;25
Have you had it in the morning and added eggs to it?
Pace Verner
00;33;25;04
I've added egg.
Brandon Verner
00;33;25;22
Wow, that's a secret hack right there. Wow, that's a pro move.
Pace Verner
00;33;30;00
That's good mind. It's so funny. I thought you were going to say mine, but there's this place we go to over on Nolensville Road. That's an old gas station, and. Oh, my gosh, why have you never taken me there? I don't know. I'm sorry, but you get a whole chicken, and so it's messy, you know, you're just sitting there, but it is unbelievable.
Pace Verner
00;33;54;10
You get these pickled onions and all the hot sauces and there's nothing glamorous about it. It is amazing. And our family loves you. Kind of like carnivores. You're like, I would just picking at it a lot of hands. Yeah, a lot of messy work, but it is amazing.
Sissy Goff
00;34;10;11
It's amazing.
David Thomas
00;34;11;00
Okay, we like to go inviting ourselves.
Pace Verner
00;34;14;09
Yeah, that's our house.
Sissy Goff
00;34;15;25
And Melissa will bring you.
Pace Verner
00;34;17;02
Yes. Well, y'all.
Sissy Goff
00;34;18;15
As you were talking, I was thinking the birds came to mind and I looked up the message version of it. But I feel like this is what we're talking about. And I feel like this is just what you have just done for every person who's had the gift of hearing y'all talk today. So it's called The Rescue, which I didn't know in the message.
Sissy Goff
00;34;35;20
Second Corinthians one, three, three, five says all praise to the Godfather of our master, Jesus, the Messiah, Father of all mercy, God of all healing counsel. He comes alongside us when we get through hard times. And before you know it, he brings us alongside someone else who is going through hard times so that we can be there for that person, just as God was there for us.
Sissy Goff
00;34;57;11
We have plenty of hard times that come from following the Messiah, but no more so than the good times of His healing comfort. We get a full measure of that too. Thanks for being that good.
Pace Verner
00;35;08;03
Yes.
Sissy Goff
00;35;08;28
Yeah, well, we all want love.
Pace Verner
00;35;11;00
Yeah, well, this has been very fun. Thanks for having us.
Sissy Goff
00;35;22;03
What an amazing conversation.
David Thomas
00;35;25;00
I could have talked with them for hours.
Sissy Goff
00;35;28;05
I know. And I loved what you said to him at the end of like, of course, we would love everything. I mean, it's just yeah, they're just amazing people.
David Thomas
00;35;34;25
What were the things that stayed with you the most?
Sissy Goff
00;35;37;13
Well, I definitely left one brain and talked about I could just picture him growing up with his dad and those adventures they had. But that that sense of not even just that it was risk and adventure, but that it felt like trust and that trust led to more confidence in him.
David Thomas
00;35;52;09
And even how they're translating that into their own parenting with letting Afton have that amazing little business that he's worked his way from small items to a car.
Sissy Goff
00;36;01;13
I know, I know.
David Thomas
00;36;02;28
That guy's going to end up an entrepreneur like his dad with their skills. And same.
Sissy Goff
00;36;07;03
Thing, you.
David Thomas
00;36;07;16
Know.
Sissy Goff
00;36;08;07
What's something you loved?
David Thomas
00;36;09;08
You know, I loved when he's talked about just I'm responsible for me. And I think it's so easy to lose that for all of us in any relationship, not just in parenting. Like I'm trying to manage others, control others, change others, and I'm responsible for me my relationship with God, my work I need to do. I love when she reminded us of that.
Sissy Goff
00;36;29;06
There's so much freedom and what both of them said. And I loved when she said, We're going to be imperfect parents and we need to be okay. Not getting it right and that there's so much stress that we can find in God. In the midst of that.
David Thomas
00;36;41;03
This is one I want to go back and listen to.
Sissy Goff
00;36;42;26
I learned to love those things.
Sissy Goff
00;36;48;01
It's our joy to bring the experience and insight we gained through our work beyond the walls of the Daystar House.
David Thomas
00;36;54;17
If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your friends and don't forget to click the follow button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode to learn more about our parenting resources or to see if we're coming to a city near you, visit our Web site at Raising Boys and Girls dot com.
Sissy Goff
00;37;15;04
Join us next time for more help and hope as you continue your journey of raising boys and girls.