Episode 74: What Kids Need Right Now: Fall Edition
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One of David and Sissy's favorite episodes to do quarterly is based on "What Kids Need Right Now". They talk so much about about how they are sitting with kids and families every day and hearing their hearts and hearing their struggles. And so it's important to get to talk about what they are seeing specifically. Join in on this conversation and hear the three things they are seeing the most right now with kids and learn about the practical ways we as caregivers can help them grow in these areas.
Connect with David, Sissy, and Melissa at raisingboysandgirls.com.
A special thank you to our partners of this week's episode:
Organifi - Go to www.organifi.com/RBG and use code RBG for 20% off your order.
Transcript
Sissy Goff
Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff.
David Thomas
I'm David Thomas.
Melissa Travathan
And I'm Melissa Trevathan.
Sissy Goff
And we are so glad you've set aside a few minutes to spend with us today. In each episode of this podcast, we'll share some of what we're learning in the work we do with kids and families on a daily basis at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, Tennessee. Our goal is to help you care for the kids in your life with a little more understanding, a little more practical help, and a whole lot of hope.
Sissy Goff
So pull up a chair and join us on this journey from our little yellow house to yours.
Sissy Goff
David, have you ever tried to set a new health goal only to be so discouraged because you don't follow through?
David Thomas
Yesterday. Definitely more than once!
Sissy Goff
I always have so much motivation in the beginning to make salads and prep healthy snacks every morning. But I'll be honest, after about a week, I realize I don't have the time for all of that. And I go back to eating tacos every day.
David Thomas
Hey, there's nothing wrong with tacos.
Sissy Goff
Thanks for that.
David Thomas
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Sissy Goff
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Sissy Goff
Do I sound like a science professor or what?
Sissy Goff
You do. I might give you an extra degree. And that sounds like a great recipe for reaching health goals. And one of the best things about Organifi is that you can take it on the go.
Sissy Goff
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Sissy Goff
I'm so excited to be back.
David Thomas
It's felt so long and it's so fun to be back in this space.
Sissy Goff
Yes, I know. So for those of you who are listening, who don't know, we are in totally different places during the summers. And David, tell him what you're doing.
David Thomas
I am here in the office in Nashville. And you are?
Sissy Goff
I am at our little version of a summer retreat program called Hopetown. So I'm living with, I think, about 175 kids. Not at one time, but over the course of the summer. So it's really fun to be back in this space getting to talk
David Thomas
In Kentucky - we're not even in the same state.
Sissy Goff
not even in the same state. But, you know, we have talked so much about, I think one of our favorite episodes to do quarterly has become what kids need now. Because, you know, as we talk so much about, we're sitting with kids and families every day and hearing their hearts and hearing their struggles. And so it feels important to get to talk about what we're seeing specifically.
Sissy Goff
And if you had to say kind of overarchingly what you saw this summer with kids because you're the director in the summers at Daystar. And so across the board you saw boys and girls all ages. What would you say you were seeing a lot of?
David Thomas
You know, I would say the biggest and most consistent themes would be: we've talked so much culturally about all the concerns we share, understandably so, about kids being behind academically. But you and I have talked so much about seeing kids behind socially and emotionally, and I think I just keep seeing so much evidence of that with kids in different spaces.
David Thomas
And I had another parent tell the exact same story of a little boy who was born in 2019. So think where we were in the pandemic at that point. Didn't have the opportunity, obviously, for playdates, for a Mother's Day out experience because of the realities of what were going on in our world, who's just now having opportunities, consistent opportunities to be out in the world. And they were at a park and he was the mom was sitting on a bench watching him across the way. And a kid just took a toy, which is, you know, something we know is going to happen with every kid in the two, three, four space. And he just started screaming like this, lost his mind, like, “What just happened? What do I do?” You know? And there just hasn't been practice for those little people of “navigating the normal,” is maybe the umbrella statement I put over it and I think about all the versions I've heard of that with toddlers, with elementary age kids, with adolescents. What did you see a lot of this summer?
Sissy Goff
You know, I was thinking about it even this morning. Knowing we were going to have this conversation and thinking about last summer versus this summer and how concerned I was last summer about the fact that so many kids felt so blank. It felt like they had been removed from so many social environments and did not know how to reengage. And I was so worried about the anxiety and depression, which we both still are, obviously. It's so rampant. But it really shifted. It was fascinating to watch. And one of the big picture things, which is interesting because you and I have been traveling a little bit this fall and going to some churches and we've heard the same thing from churches and schools already that it felt this summer, like our 11th and 12th graders felt more like ninth and 10th graders, and our ninth and 10th graders felt more like seventh and eighth graders. And it feels like they're just a little bit behind.
Sissy Goff
And we know that the milestones we talk about so much, but that a lot of what maturity is, is practice and being in these environments and it helps kids, it helps us move forward and they haven't had the same degree. So so I would say that shifted from the blankness to the behind-ness. That's not a word, but we can say that.
David Thomas
Use it.
Sissy Goff
Yes, yes. That it feels like they're lagging, which is what you said. And then we really wanted to talk about three things specifically, but the first thing that I saw specifically at Hopetown was this lack of awareness among younger ones. The anxiety was definitely still prevalent and there were certain things that I could tell they would get stuck or fearful or we would have looping questions, the things that tip us off to anxiety.
Sissy Goff
But I will never forget this precious little girl who was really fearful about getting on a boat and had some tears over it. And we finally coaxed her onto the boat and we go out and we have at any given time when we're out on the lake, there's somewhere between 40 to 50 people on several boats. And we take turns, tubing and whatever water toys we have out that day.
Sissy Goff
But my boat, I was pulling kids on tubes and this precious little girl finally got on the boat, got on the tube, was so excited, finished tubing. She was our first tube ride of the day and came in and sat down on the little seat all wet and she said, “I'm ready to go home now.” Like because her to ride was over. I could take her back and she could do whatever she wanted for the afternoon.
Sissy Goff
And it immediately struck me: that's part of the fall out of this thing, and we are more out of it than they are. And they're still learning how to reengage. And so I think that sense of there are 30 other kids who get to tube didn't even occur to her because one of the things that happened for us during the pandemic is we didn't have to accommodate other people.
Sissy Goff
And so learning that kind of awareness. Awareness would be the first thing I would say. And as we talked about this, we wanted to give you all three practical things for each idea. So the three things I would say about awareness, one would be to really help your kids grow in awareness of others, and even role playing can help. And we talk so much about that. But when you see a certain scenario play itself out in public to say, what do you think that person was feeling? What do you think that person was feeling? When you watch a movie, when you watch a show, anything like that, to give them opportunities to talk about the emotions and then even act in the role.
Sissy Goff
Well, what would you have wanted to say differently? And I would have done this and what could you have done then? I think can really help kids anchor to more awareness.
David Thomas
That's so good.
Sissy Goff
So first is to help your kids grow in awareness with others. And the second would be to allow your kids to be uncomfortable for the sake of others and that some of again what we missed and we have a dear friend and coworker that I heard talking recently about this family and she has two older kids and she was talking about having a family with young children live with them for I can't remember how many months I feel like she said like three months.
Sissy Goff
And I stopped her and said, Wait, they lived in your house for three months? And she said, Yes. And I said, Where did your kids sleep? And she said, On the floor. And I said, That is amazing that y'all would take that length of time and that your kids would be willing to do that. And she said, “No, we are committed to our children being disrupted from time to time for the sake of others. We as a family want to give of ourselves, put ourselves out for other people. And so I thought it was amazing practice for my kids.” Isn’t that beautiful?
David Thomas
Incredible.
Sissy Goff
Oh, I so respected her. And even the kids willingness to do that. There may have been some grumbling because I think they were adolescents, but their willingness to do it. And then the third thing we would say, which we both are such fans of with kids, is just volunteer, help them find some places they can give. And if you have younger kids as a family, you can decide what you want to do, where you feel passionate about.
Sissy Goff
But if you have older kids, sometimes it's helpful to say, you tell me things you're passionate about and if you're having trouble coming up with them, I'll come up with a list of ten and you pick one. But we're all going to be giving as a family one Sunday afternoon a month, or we're going to take a Wednesday night every month or whatever it is that we find opportunities for them to give. You talk so much about boys making a difference with their hands and seeing my life matters. And the same is true for girls being able to see on somebody else's face what I'm doing and what I'm contributing makes a difference to you, I think really increases awareness.
David Thomas
That’s great.
Sissy Goff
What would you add, David?
David Thomas
You know, I would say I think kids need support and challenge and equal parts of both from both parents. I want to really emphasize that and it has been my experience the longer I get to sit with kids and families that I think we as people naturally bend a little bit more toward one or the other. I think they're just people in the world who are just naturally more supportive. And there are people in the world, we won't call it any Enneagram numbers in particular.
Sissy Goff
I was about to say - should we out ourselves on this as Enneagram Ones?
David Thomas
Oh, my goodness. Yes. We just bend a little more toward the challenge. And, you know, I'll even see some of that unique to gender. I often will see moms who are just unbelievably supportive. And we as dads, as men, we're action oriented, we're doers, you know. And so I think we can go straight to the challenge.
David Thomas
And what I want to say about equal parts is I think we can assume we're balancing each other out in those moments. So we're giving kids both parts. But what I think kids really need is both. So if you're a parent who bends more toward challenge, I really want to challenge you to just sit and do more listening.
David Thomas
I have a mom who's a certain Enneagram number who she talks about how hard it is for her. Yes. And she said, “David, I even have to set a timer like I look at my watch and I'll say, ‘You sit on the end of his bed and don't say anything for at least 3 minutes.’” Just listening before you offer any advice or input and other parents who can labor in that place of support and never getting to a point of helping kids do some hard things.
David Thomas
So if I were thinking about some practical things to consider here, I would think first about a context for growth, and that's going to look different for every kid. But I had a conversation recently with a mom who this is a divorced family, and the son had spent a lot of time playing video games at his dad's house. And when he came home, the mom was like, “Hey, let's go on a walk together with the dog.” And he had zero interest in going on a walk. He just wanted to kind of get right back online with his friends. And what does it look like to create context for growth and stretching and saying, you are going to get a little screen time and we're going on a walk.
David Thomas
I understand it's hard to unplug. And a teenage boy who the parents had invited their son to invite a friend over and he was like, “I don't really want to have him over. I just want to talk with him online.” And just that lag we're talking about. Of course, it's easier to just be with someone online. I'm not having to read nonverbal cues.
David Thomas
I'm not having to think, “Did I offer them a beverage. Have I paid attention to what they want to do while they're here?” And so all the practice opportunity that comes in that context for growth. And that's where I would say secondly, let's baby step our way toward those hard things. So with that first young man, we're not asking him to run a 5k, but we are asking him to go on a family walk together - weekly, regularly, consistently.
David Thomas
To that second young man, you don't have to invite a friend over for an overnight. But let's have somebody over for an afternoon. So let's take some small steps in the direction of where we want to be heading. And I think in doing so, the third thing I would say is that I think what we're doing in those moments, what we really want to be doing all throughout the journey of parenting, is just prioritizing their health, their well-being over happiness and it's just easier to give in to the easy.
David Thomas
Like what would make him happy is just let him have more screen time. But that's not necessarily what would make him healthy. And so thinking about that and you know, I just would encourage parents in saying we're prioritizing those things when we take kids to the doctor for fingerprints at the pediatrician and to the dentist for getting their teeth cleaned. Like, these are not things that kids love to do, but we understand they are so important to their well-being. And so how could we prioritize those things in the every day of parenting in some of the same ways? What else would you say?
Sissy Goff
So the first would be awareness. The second would be support and challenge. I love that one, David. And then the third would really be practice. And we talked so much about practice but could not talk about it enough because like we were saying, that's what helps all of us mature. I mean, I have things I'm practicing every day how to give other people the benefit of the doubt.
Sissy Goff
There are so many things I could say on that. And like we saw this lack of awareness among younger kids, which I really would have said looked a lot like entitlement with the older ones. Maybe. I hope no kids are listening to this actually. But you know, typically once a summer we have some child, maybe it's more often a girl. I would be curious if you would say boys do this, too, but we have some child who comes to Hope Town and has something that they have injured themselves before, that they're wearing some kind of ankle brace about 20% of the time, and then they're skipping the other percent of the time that you really can tell it's more attention seeking, than it is reality based or injury based. Do boys do that as much as girls?
David Thomas
Oh yes. I call it inflated injury.
Sissy Goff
Ooh, that's good. Yes, I can think of kids that every time I see them they have a different brace or that cool looking tape that athletes wear. I've never worn it, I don't know what it's called. But this summer we had more of those than I have ever experienced. It was fascinating the lengths that kids were going to get attention, and I think some of it is, “I don't know how anymore. I don't know how to meet you and think, I'd like to be your friend. So how do I get you to pay more attention to me, to notice me? Now, we've talked a little bit and how do I get you to notice me further?”
Sissy Goff
And so there would be these huge things that would happen that it felt so attention seeking. And it made me really sad that that's where kids are. And not all of them, but a good percentage this summer felt like they were really out of practice. And so a few things practically, we would say in light of that, we really believe, number one, every child needs to be involved in at least one social activity outside of school every week. And sometimes introverted kids will say their bucket is completely full at school. They probably still need to be doing it because they need to have the practice they need to be forced to be with and work together with a small group. It could be sports, it could be art classes. It can be a small group at church anywhere. That they are having to practice and experience more of what it looks like to be with other kids and to make friends and to have issues with them even at times. And how do you work through it? All those things that we know help us learn social skills. They need practice doing them would be one.
Sissy Goff
Number two, even talk with them. I'm hearing more girls talk about social anxiety. Are you hear in boys talk about that? Than ever before. And so to say to them, “I was listening to my favorite podcast... (Just kidding.) I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about social anxiety with kids and that it seems more prevalent. Or even just if you don't want to use the word anxiety, that kids are having trouble moving back into the social world and their friends, and that they sometimes feel uncomfortable and awkward and maybe they're in seventh and eighth grade, they feel awkward anyway. “But what's it like for you? What do you think it's like for your friends?” Sometimes when they won't tell you what it's like for themselves, they'll tell you what they think it's like for their friends with air quotes, you know that it's really about them. But to ask them questions like that, see if you can get to some of the places where they feel uncomfortable.
Sissy Goff
And then, you know, we love to follow up with the question of how can I help? What can you do? And then third, we would say to create opportunities to have other kids in your home that it's not just that they're having playdates that they're getting with other kids, but that you're getting to witness them with other kids, even if it's just in the car. But if it can be that you make them peace and they are teenagers and they'll let you sit at the table for 5 minutes of the dinner or whatever it is where you're seeing them in the context of other kids. Because out of that, I think we can see some places where kids may need to practice more and may need to labor more.
Sissy Goff
And, you know, we talk so much in Are My Kids On Track about using a tennis ball to ask questions back and forth. And you may notice that your child is only asking questions or they're silent and waiting for others to approach them, or they're only responding when someone asks them, or they're only talking about themselves. And that's a place and again, you can blame it on us. We're happy for you to blame anything on us. Blame it on the pandemic. We're all rusty. And so we're going to practice as a family. We're going to use the tennis ball and we're going to toss it around, or we're going to practice asking questions that aren't about ourselves but completely about that other person. We're going to practice responding wherever it is.
Sissy Goff
They need a little help and a little shoring up. It seems as important as it's ever been because again, like we've been talking about, we feel like we've emerged from this, but kids haven't. We're not seeing evidence of it to the degree that we would like to. And so it feels particularly important and timely for us to lean in.
Erick Goss
Hi, I'm Erik Goss, dad of three and CEO of Minno, the streaming platform for Christian families. You know, I'm a better parent when I'm not spontaneous. Let me explain. When I'm parenting off the cuff, I'm less focused and less effective. I'm distracted. Maybe I'm stressed and I often don't choose well when I'm making a game time call. That's why family routines and rhythms are so crucial and can be so impactful in the lives of our kids.
Erick Goss
For my family, we have a few different rhythms. We have dinner together as often as possible. We do family devotions regularly. I take each of my daughters out one on one every week, and Friday night is pizza and movie night a family favorite conversations we wouldn't have otherwise always pop up after these family movie screenings. These rhythms and routines build intentionality into our week.
Erick Goss
They are in sense spiritual practices. God uses these rhythms to form us and form our relationships with each other. And while we often think of ourselves as parents to the kids, a family is made up of individual relationships. The health of the family is only as good as the health of each of these relationships, and regular face to face rhythms help nurture those connections.
Erick Goss
David and Sissy just talked about what kids need right now. Consider adding family rhythms to their helpful list. What rhythms can you put into practice with your family this season?
Sissy Goff
It's our joy to bring the experience and insight we gain through our work beyond the walls of the Daystar house.
David Thomas
If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your friends and don't forget to click the follow button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. To learn more about our parenting resources or to see if we're coming to a city near you, visit our website at RaisingBoysandGirls.com.
Sissy Goff
Join us next time for more help and hope as you continue your journey of raising boys and girls.